01/28/2002 03:20 PM House L&C
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
January 28, 2002
3:20 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair
Representative Kevin Meyer
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Harry Crawford
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Joe Hayes
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 343
"An Act extending the termination date of the Board of
Professional Counselors."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 343
SHORT TITLE:EXTEND BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL COUNSELORS
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/18/02 2008 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
01/18/02 2008 (H) L&C, FIN
01/18/02 2008 (H) REFERRED TO LABOR & COMMERCE
01/28/02 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
AMY ERICKSON, Staff
to Representative Lisa Murkowski
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 408
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: As committee aide, presented HB 343 on
behalf of the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee,
sponsor.
CATHERINE REARDON, Director
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 110806
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 343, and answered
questions.
ANNE HENRY, Chair
Board of Professional Counselors;
and Special Projects Coordinator
Division of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 110620
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0620
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 343. She said the Board of
Professional Counselors are not opposed to a merger, but would
like more time.
DIXIE HOOD, Member
Board of Marital and Family Therapy
222 Seward Street, Suite 210
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided board's position on HB 343.
PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor
Legislative Audit Division
Alaska State Legislature
PO Box 113300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-3300
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the Legislative Audit Division's
position on HB 343.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-6, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR LISA MURKOWSKI called the House Labor and Commerce
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:20 p.m. Members
present at the call to order were Representatives Murkowski,
Halcro, Meyer, and Crawford. Representative Kott joined the
meeting already in progress.
Number 0050
HB 343-EXTEND BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL COUNSELORS
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL [NO. 343], "An Act extending the termination date
of the Board of Professional Counselors."
Number 0106
AMY ERICKSON, Staff to Representative Lisa Murkowski, Alaska
State Legislature, speaking as the committee aide, presented HB
343 on behalf of the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee. She said HB 343 extends the termination date of the
Board of Professional Counselors (BPC), as recommended by the
Division of Legislative Audit, and suggests a possible merger
between the Board of Marital and Family Therapists (BMFT) and
the BPC. At this time, HB 343 does not satisfy the above
statement, but instead the termination date has been extended to
June 30, 2005. This would put the cycle of termination on the
same schedule as the BMFT, making it easier to discuss the
merger at that point.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI informed the committee that the Division of
Legislative Audit recommended a termination date [for the BPC]
of 2006, which would keep up with a "normal cycle." House Bill
343 would shorten the BPC's termination date by one year,
matching the termination date of the BMFT. Chair Murkowski
noted the proposed merger of the two boards would be a large
topic of discussion.
Number 0279
CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing,
Department of Community & Economic Development (DCED), informed
the committee that the Division of Occupational Licensing
provides the staff support to both the BMFT and the BPC.
Number 0357
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said the audit reported that the BPC has
developed the regulations to provide for licensure by
examination; however, it has not yet developed or offered an
exam. She inquired about the status of this development.
Number 0409
ANNE HENRY, Chair, Board of Professional Counselors; and Special
Projects Coordinator, Division of Mental Health and
Developmental Disabilities, Department of Community & Economic
Development, said the BPC has not developed an examination, but
has come to an agreement with the National Board of Counselor
Certification to use the National Counselor Exam (NCE), a
standardized exam used by several other states. She said the
BPC has been in contact with the National Board of Counselor
Certification to work out the details of how people can take the
examination.
Number 0486
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked Ms. Henry if the statement in the audit
referring to the BPC's working toward developing an exam is
accurate, because the BPC already has the NCE in place.
MS. HENRY said Chair Murkowski's foregoing statement is correct.
Number 0511
CHAIR MURKOWSKI changed the topic of discussion to the proposed
merger between BMFT and BPC, and said the auditors hope there
would be a cost savings by merging the two boards.
Number 0567
MS. REARDON said the DCED sets license fees by regulation, and,
under statute, adjusts fees up or down with the goal of each
profession paying its regulatory costs. She said the goal of
the Division of Occupational Licensing is to have a zero
balance. The Division of Occupational Licensing aims to spend
as much regulating the licensees as it is paid in fees.
Deficits and surpluses roll forward to be used or paid back in
future years.
MS. REARDON said currently the fee for a marital and family
therapist two-year license is $775. When the board was formed
in 1993, the initial fee for a license was $300. That $300 fee
remained through FY 96. Then the fee grew to $425, and in FY 99
it climbed to $775.
Number 0600
MS. REARDON reported that the primary reason for the spike to
$775 was an attempt to have the professionals pay back a
significant deficit that arose as a result of legal
investigative costs. The legal costs are the billings from the
Department of Law. Billings include time spent preparing cases
and representing the board in appeals of license-denial cases.
Number 0781
MS. REARDON noted that the BMFT had a deficit the last time
license fees were set, which is every two years. The deficit
was $52,000 as of July, 2000. Ms. Reardon said the BPC has been
in existence a much shorter period of time, and its two-year
license fee is currently $530, down from the initial fee of
$675, which brought in too much money. Even though the fee was
lowered at the first renewal, there still is a significant
surplus. The BPC was conservative in lowering the fee because
it did not have a very long track record of expenses.
MS. REARDON said, "At the beginning of this fiscal year, there
were 327 licensees." At the end of fiscal year 2000, the
surplus was $121,000. Ms. Reardon summarized by saying the BMFT
had a deficit of $50,000 in July 2000, while the BPC had a
surplus of $121,000.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked Ms. Reardon how many marital and family
therapists currently maintain a license.
Number 0830
MS. REARDON said the BMFT had 100 licensees on the first day of
the fiscal year.
MS. HENRY said the reason there are slightly different numbers
right now is because of differences in the renewal date. Ms.
Henry said, "Generally, a few licensees are lost at renewal
time, but hopefully they come back the next year." She said
currently the BPC has 274 licensees.
Number 0873
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if the BPC would soon see a spike in its
fees similar to what the BMFT saw, because the BPC has not been
in operation as long as the BMFT.
Number 0928
MS. REARDON said she isn't sure the BPC will see the same spike
in fees as the BMFT experienced, but she agreed there wouldn't
be expensive disciplinary proceedings the first year of a
board's existence, because there aren't many licensees "to
accuse of things." Ms. Reardon said that most of the initial
costs for a new board are from writing the regulations and
having license-denial appeals. There being a large number of
applications for licensure in the first year or two, not every
applicant is successful. However, when a license is denied
because one did not meet the qualifications, that person has an
opportunity to appeal his or her denial to a hearing officer.
The BPC has been in operation for a long enough period of time
that an expensive disciplinary case could happen at any time.
She said if the BPC keeps some disciplinary costs in the
projection of expenses, it may soften the spike of fees when, or
if, an expensive disciplinary case occurs.
Number 1007
MS. REARDON reported that the range of annual expenses, money
that the Division of Occupational Licensing attributes to the
professions, varies from year to year. In FY 99 the amount of
annual expenses for the BPC was $20,000. In 2000, its expenses
were $25,000. In 2001, the amount of expenses was $57,000, and
in the first six months of 2002, the amount is already at
$34,000. The increase in expenses from 2000 to 2001 came from
legal and personnel services. Most of the expense in personnel
services came from hearing officer activity.
Number 1115
MS. REARDON indicated that for the BMFT, the costs have gone
from $30,000 in 1996 and 1997 to $145,000 in 1998. Of that
$145,000, about $70,000 came from legal expenses. In 1999, the
expenses were $60,000, and in 2000 the costs dropped to $26,000.
In FY 01, the expenses are already up to $47,000. Ms. Reardon
said the average annual cost is about $60,000.
Number 1177
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if there are any dual license [marital and
family therapist and professional counselor] holders in the
state. She inquired if the cost increase for a BMFT license
might discourage dual license holders from renewing, because
holding a BPC license is less expensive.
Number 1208
DIXIE HOOD, Member, Board of Marital and Family Therapy,
responded by saying that when the BMFT fees increased, one of
the first things noticed was that a number of dual license
holders dropped their BMFT licenses.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI verified what Ms. Hood said, that some of the
dual license holders made a choice to not renew their BMFT
license because of the jump in fees.
MS. HOOD said originally many of the license holders wanted to
hold a BMFT license for the purpose of advertising themselves as
licensed marital and family therapists. She said in Alaska,
professionals can call themselves marital and family therapists
without a license, so many chose to not renew their BMFT
license.
MS. HENRY said the initial fee for the BPC license was $675,
which at that time was higher than the BMFT license. She also
said the BPC had some psychological associates, social workers,
and psychologists "grandparented" into this license, creating a
diverse pool of licensed professional counselors.
Number 1350
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if the state ever considered an "omnibus"
board for several mental health divisions.
Number 1437
MS. REARDON said at the beginning of Governor Hickel's
administration, the Office of Boards and Commissions proposed to
have several omnibus bills for the health professions. This
idea received hostile reactions from the professional community.
One reason was the proposal had not been carefully "sold or
packaged." The BMFT, in its discussion of the current audit,
discussed the possibility of a psychologist and marital and
family therapist professional counselor.
Number 1461
MS. HOOD said for some time the BMFT had overlapping meetings
with the social workers and psychologists. Ms. Hood thought
these meetings were useful to compare what each group was
working on, and what similarities they shared. The extra costs
associated with holding three meetings at once, and the burden
of doing minutes for three boards, was a problem. As the three
groups worked through some issues, it seemed there was not an
urgency to do so on a regular basis. Ms. Hood reflected on her
experience of being a licensed marriage and family counselor in
California, where there is a board of behavioral science
examiners that includes social workers, marital and family
therapists, and psychologists.
MS. HOOD said there has been talk of developing a similar board
in Alaska, but there have been objections from the
psychologists. The social workers showed an interest in
developing a behavioral science board. She said as of 2001,
there are approximately 13 states, out of approximately 46
membership states, that have combined boards. Then the social
workers began developing several different levels of licensure,
and therefore stepped back from developing a combined board to
focus on the new levels of licensure.
MS. HOOD said in the 2001 October and March meetings, the BMFT
discussed the possibility of combining the BMFT and BPC. There
was reservation by the professionals on the board to adopt this
idea. One problem was that licensed MFTs have strived to
distinguish their profession, and combining with the BPC might
"blur" their professional distinction. Ms. Hood suggested that
with the social workers and psychologists unwilling to merge,
the BPC felt they were on a "higher level" and thus were
unwilling to merge also.
MS. HOOD said that after speaking with the former chair of the
BMFT, she was reminded of a task force that existed a few years
ago. This group included representation from each of the
professions, and a representative from each of the professional
associations. Ms. Hood suggested there could be a similar task
force developed in Alaska before the next sunset deadline
including the social workers, psychologists, marital and family
therapists, and professional counselors.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said the mission of the auditors is to make sure
the professions are operating efficiently and effectively, and
that the public interest is being safeguarded. She emphasized
the need to address the issue of consumer protection and to
determine how the public is best protected. Chair Murkowski
said she feels it does no good to set up separate boards just
because of some "turf" issues in professional identities. She
said she would like to find out if the individual boards are
operating efficiently and effectively and are safeguarding the
public interest, or if combining the boards would satisfy these
requirements better.
MS. REARDON said she would be in favor of having representative
members from each profession in a "roundtable-type of
discussion." She said in a larger state there are thousands of
licensees in each field, which would require a more complicated
structure, such as subcommittees. Ms. Reardon argued that a
roundtable board would be feasible with the number of licensees
in Alaska, while this probably would not work in a state with
thousands of licensees.
Number 1936
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said it seems from the audit that the
psychologists are the only group strongly opposed to the merger.
He asked why the psychologists have a say in the merging of the
BPC and BMFT, when they already have their own board.
MS. REARDON said the Division of Legislative Audit surveyed all
three boards to find their opinions on the idea of merging two
or three of them. Ms. Reardon explained that the audit was not
meant to ask the psychologists, "Should the BMFT and BPC merge?"
The audit was intended to ask the psychologists how they would
feel about merging with the other professions.
MS. REARDON said there are differences in the licensing
processes between the psychologists and the BMFT and BPC. She
said the BMFT and BPC are governed by title-restriction laws,
while psychologists have a mandatory licensing law. In order to
practice psychology, the professional must have a psychology
license. In order for professional counselors and marital and
family therapists to call themselves licensed, they must have a
BMFT or BPC license. Without a license, they can still practice
and call themselves marital and family therapists and
professional counselors. Ms. Reardon mentioned that this
relates to drops in the number of licensees.
MS. REARDON said that in the scopes of practice, there is some
overlap in the description of the practices of psychology,
professional counseling, and marital and family therapy. She
commented that some of the psychologists' reluctance to merge
could be because they are finding it increasingly difficult to
distinguish their profession, which requires a license, from
that of marital and family therapists and professional
counselors, who aren't required to maintain a license.
Number 2055
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out that in the audit, one of the
psychologists said that "fees in Alaska are eight times higher
than any other state." Representative Halcro said that it was a
little confusing because one of the suggested benefits of a
combined board would be a reduction in administrative costs. He
asked if these fees are exclusive to psychologists.
Number 2100
PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor, Legislative Audit Division,
Alaska State Legislature, said not all states have statutes
similar to Alaska's, which require the professions to pay 100
percent of all their costs. Public protection issues like
denial of license applications and investigations compose many
of the legal fees and escalate costs. In some other states,
these legal fees do not have to be paid for by the boards. Ms.
Davidson said the audit included questions relating to fees
specifically to get people to respond to the survey.
Number 2155
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked Ms. Davidson why there were only three
boards [psychologists, BPC, BMFT] considered for the merger, and
if there was discussion to include any other boards.
MS. DAVIDSON said the boards that the Legislative Audit Division
considered internally were those for social workers and
psychologists, as well as the BMFT and the BPC. [The division]
decided later to exclude the social workers from the audit. She
said the Legislative Audit Division was looking for the best
commonality between the professions, and wanted to develop a
survey to get an idea of what the licensees thought an
appropriate combination of boards would be. The survey results,
and the level of response from the boards, indicated that the
psychologists are "overwhelmingly opposed."
Number 2207
CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that it was the psychologists who thought
the best combination for a merger was between the BPC and the
BMFT.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked if there was another approach to
make it less expensive for the boards to conduct business,
rather than trying to combine them and spread the cost. He
suggested creating a grievance committee to work on some of the
problems before they begin accumulating expensive legal costs.
Number 2248
MS. HOOD indicated she was interested in finding out if there
was another approach. For example, some states have
subcommittees that deal only with disciplinary action. These
subcommittee members are not members of the licensing board.
There is initial contact with the licensing board when a
complaint is received, and one of the members of the licensing
board would be privy to this complaint. If these initial
complaints were able to be worked out at an early stage between
the member of the licensing board and the professional that had
the complaint brought against him or her, there would not be a
need for an in-depth investigation. She said there would be
some helpful suggestions made by the licensing board member to
the investigators about aspects of the situation that are a
problem. Ms. Hood said she found that the investigators
preferred to go out and gather the evidence and do the initial
investigation themselves, fearing that people would be shredding
reports and files and therefore making it difficult to
prosecute.
MS. HOOD commented that she'd requested a copy of an
investigation from the "Anchorage office." She said that she
thought the nearly 400-page report seemed excessive. She
thought that much of the information, gathered at an early stage
in the investigation, could have been acted on earlier. She
said there were comments by some members of the regulatory board
who thought the investigation was a zealous process. Ms. Hood
noted that others, not just herself, had expressed concern
regarding the investigative process.
MS. HOOD said the BMFT made a proposal to try to find another
approach to help offset some of the legal fees. This proposal
included a list of licensed marital and family therapists who
would be willing to be consultants. The licensing board also
was willing to designate one of the board members as a
consultant. The division was opposed to this proposal because
the consultants would have to recuse themselves from any further
action, and the licensing board has a limited number of people.
Number 2420
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD commented that there is no impetus for
the division to keep costs down. Speaking about his union, he
said that by sitting an employee down with a committee before
taking the complaint to the next step, the union was able to
reduce the number of cases that went beyond the initial
committee because they worked out any grievances earlier. He
noted that there may be a way to "weed out" some of the
expensive cases before legal costs begin.
Number 2462
MS. REARDON agreed with Representative Crawford and said one
problem is that some of the expensive legal cases involve more
serious problems. She said several of the investigations that
have led to high costs involve allegations of "quite significant
sexual improprieties, or improper treatment of children." [Ends
mid-speech because of tape change.]
TAPE 02-6, SIDE B
Number 2503
MS. REARDON emphasized the importance of investigating the facts
regarding a claim before the negotiation begins. She said when
a claim against a professional is received, and it suggests that
a "moderate level infraction" has occurred, there may be more to
that claim than the investigator initially realized. By
investigating the claim further, the board member may find that
the claim is much more serious than previously believed. She
said that if the claim is not fully investigated, then there
will be "two unequal people negotiating." There is one person
who knows what he or she did wrong, and the other person only
has the facts that are listed in the claim. She said this
results in "negotiating without knowledge, without facts, and
just believing whatever the person is telling you." She said
the goal is to find harmony between the two parties.
MS. REARDON gave an example of a worker and a supervisor who are
clashing on a particular subject. What they both want is to
find a way to work together and get over the issue. She noted
that "it doesn't matter so much what an investigation of the
facts might bring up; it matters what those two people think the
facts are, and can discuss right there." Ms. Reardon said in a
situation in which an accused licensee is meeting with a board
member, the goal is not for the two people to find an agreement
and get along, but rather to protect the public. The board
needs to know what that licensee did wrong before the board can
decide what is an appropriate solution.
Number 2375
MS. HENRY said the investigations that the BPC has experienced
are "at a considerably lower degree." She said there are
varying degrees of cases: some of the larger cases involve
things such as sexual misconduct or unethical behavior, while
the smaller cases could just be a license denial. She pointed
out that some costs could be avoided by addressing the smaller
cases before the legal costs begin to get too large.
MS. REARDON said there is an impartial hearing officer who hears
most appeals or disciplinary hearings and then gives the board a
proposed decision. Sometimes the proposed decision is very
lengthy. She said that a 60-page report is not unheard of; the
reasoning behind such a thorough report is that if the case is
appealed to the superior court, the whole story is laid out
already.
Number 2282
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if the hearing officer would deliver a 30-
page proposal to the board if the case is a license-denial
appeal, where the professional does not meet the requisite
number of hours and the decision seems obvious.
MS. REARDON said the board informs the individual that his or
her application for a license was denied because the requisite
number of hours has not been satisfied. The individual has the
option to appeal that decision. Ms. Reardon said, "I do not
control the investigation, but the part I am responsible for is
how much money is spent, how much paper is generated in the
investigation, and the events that lead up to the hearing
officer."
Number 2220
MS. HOOD said the fears Ms. Reardon has on this topic are
legitimate, and that it is worth looking at other states that
already have a process similar to the one she has proposed. She
said if there is a licensee who is under investigation, and
there is enough information to have his or her license revoked
immediately, that person can still remain in practice in Alaska.
The professionals who have their licenses revoked can still call
themselves marital and family therapists, only they can't call
themselves licensed marital and family therapists.
Number 2169
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked what the BMFT and the BPC have done to
explore the idea of merging.
MS. HENRY said in the letter the BPC sent to the auditor
[11/12/01] it asked for the "recommendation to be changed."
This would allow the BPC to take the time to make a thoughtful
decision as to whether or not to combine boards, and also to
design statutory language that both boards would agree upon.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if steps have been taken in that
direction.
MS. HENRY said the BPC has not done this yet; members wanted to
wait and see what happened at this committee meeting, to see if
HB 343 would come forward on its own or not.
MS. REARDON suggested that the only time the details of a bill
should be discussed is after both boards have come up with
something they can support. She said:
If we're only talking about merging these two boards
[BPC and BMFT] - if we're not talking about the
psychologists, that there isn't a way you can write
the bill that both boards could support - I'm afraid
that we'll get into a task, which is write a bill.
But there's not a bill that can be written that can
get support if the psychologists aren't in there, and
then it would just be a waste of time.
Number 2030
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked Ms. Reardon what she would suggest to
solve the merger problem. Representative Meyer said he thought
Ms. Reardon was supportive of the merger.
MS. REARDON said she is trying to maintain a neutral position.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI reminded the committee that Ms. Reardon said
earlier that the merger could be feasible because the "numbers
are workable."
MS. REARDON responded by saying that if the two boards were to
merge, it would be important to not make the structure too
complicated. She said she is advocating for a more simple
structure, but if the two professions do not want to merge, then
they should not be forced to.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER observed that in 1998 when the BPC was
first started, there was a lot of discussion about merging, but
the high startup costs and the decision to wait a few years
prevented the merger. He asked about possible risks involved in
this merger.
MS. REARDON responded that one risk is that those in the
professions would be unhappy with the group that would regulate
them. She said a loss of a distinct professional identity is
another risk. She commented that the financial savings of a
merger would not be very significant. Much of the higher costs
for the boards comes from investigative legal action, and that
would not be significantly affected by a merged board. The
savings would come from smaller travel costs, depending on how
many members are on the board. She summarized by saying that
the financial savings will be relatively modest, but that there
could be intangible gains, such as the sharing of professional
ideas.
Number 1825
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if the problem facing the merger is that
the boards did not start out merged, and after having their own
entities for several years, they find it difficult to join
together. She compared the proposed merger to the Board of
Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors, and said that they
are distinct professions that have successfully merged to form a
larger board.
MS. REARDON agreed with Chair Murkowski and said once the boards
have existed as an entity, they develop a unique identity. They
are concerned that a merger would blur their professional
identities.
MS. HOOD said that the BMFT thought that if all four groups
merged to form one board, rather than just two of them, that
there might be a "mutuality of purpose and exchange of
information."
MS. HENRY stated that the BPC was not opposed to merging, but
wanted to get further ahead on its current project. She said
the BPC is working on some issues with the statutes they have in
place.
Number 1680
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER commented that if the BPC and BMFT merged,
it seems that it would be in the best interest of the
psychologists to merge also.
MS. REARDON said when the BPC was created, one of the primary
reasons the two boards did not merge was the issue of each
board's seeking to maintain its professional identity.
Number 1612
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said the proposal that the two boards would form
a task force to look at the feasibility of merging is not a bad
idea, provided they are committed to making it work.
MS. HOOD commented that the social workers, psychologists,
professional counselors, and marital and family therapists could
legitimately merge to form one group. She said the idea of
forcing two of the groups to join together, with hope that the
remaining two groups would eventually join on their own will, is
misleading.
Number 1492
MS. REARDON said that she believed if the legislature were to
draft a bill that would merge just the BMFT and the BPC, "both
boards will not be able to support it." She continued by
saying, "At this point, I don't think there's any way that I
could draft a bill to merge just these two boards that both
boards would support." Ms. Reardon said the BMFT would be more
supportive if there were an effort to draft a bill to merge
three or more of the professional groups.
Number 1396
MS. DAVIDSON reported that the goal of the "sunset audits" is to
look at public protection issues such as physical or financial
protection. She said, "When you constitute a board in Alaska,
except for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors, and the
Board of Barbers and Hairdressers, you'll typically have, in
composition of the board, more professionals than public
members." She also said that in some other states, the policy
of the board is to involve more public members to reduce the
amount of authority given to the profession.
MS. DAVIDSON said if the legislature wants to move towards
having several of the boards merge, the impetus to make the
changes starts with the "sunset legislation." Checking with her
records, Ms. Davidson informed the board that "marital and
family therapists are up for sunset in 2005, as well as the
psychologists and associates, and social workers." She
suggested that moving the sunset date up to 2005 for the BPC
would be an appropriate change if all the boards were to merge.
Ms. Davidson said a letter of intent stating which boards are to
merge, and by what date, would be needed to get the boards to
start negotiating towards a merger. She said that if a merger
were to occur in 2005, it would allow two full legislative
sessions to consider the bills.
Number 1122
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if there would be any reason to accelerate
the process and get the boards to merge into a behavioral
science or omnibus board.
MS. HENRY said she opposes moving the sunset date forward. She
said merging all the boards together is a fine idea, but the BPC
is relatively young and lacks some of the regulations that the
other three boards have had time to develop. She said that the
BPC needs its semiannual meetings to try to license more people.
She said the BPC would be lagging behind the other professions
if it were forced to merge early.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked if it is possible to approve the
extension to year 2005 and then make it known that the intent is
for all the boards to merge at that time.
Number 1020
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said the committee could attach a letter of
legislative intent expressing those ideas.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said his concern with this letter of
intent is that the committee would be making a suggestion or
decision three years prior to the date coming due, and things
could change dramatically before 2005.
Number 0954
MS. DAVIDSON said having all the boards up for a sunset audit at
the same time would make things run more efficiently. She said,
"If there is information that you would like to have as part of
your deliberation, we can always include that in the audit."
Number 0900
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he would like some form of intent
to move the division towards efficiency and to limit the number
of cases, like license-denial appeals, that require an expensive
investigation.
MS. REARDON said that the division is not generating the
extensive reports on cases like license-denial appeals, nor can
it stop them. There would have to be a letter of intent to the
hearing officer stating that "it is our intent that you
constrain the length of your proposed decisions."
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he is not concerned with who is in
control of generating the extensive reports, but rather how it
could be stopped. He said he is interested in finding a more
efficient system to limit the number of expensive proceedings
when they are not needed.
Number 0777
CHAIR MURKOWSKI suggested that Representative Ogan might have
some insight into the problems with the administrative hearings
process. She said a few years ago Representative Ogan was
researching the administrative hearings process. Chair
Murkowski stated her belief that the committee would support
attaching a letter of intent to the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said he would like to see a "strong letter
of intent" to have the boards merged by the year 2005.
Number 0630
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she was certain that the committee would be
willing to draft a letter of intent; she asked if the witnesses
would like to look at the proposed language of intent before the
bill moves out of committee.
MS. REARDON said the issue of training requirements for a
professional counselor license had not received much attention,
and reminded the committee that this issue was still present.
Number 0555
CHAIR MURKOWSKI informed the committee that the BPC will be
meeting later in the week to discuss the licensing requirements.
She suggested holding the bill in committee, drafting a strong
letter of intent, and addressing the issue of possible changes
after the BPC has met. [HB 343 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
4:55 p.m.
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